Not creating issues like early 10mm that shot guns apart becUse they used modified 9mm and .45acp guns and also did not overpenetrate like early 10mm cartridges were dling in actual shootings. All during the 9mm vs. .45 wars and the stopping power arguments, everyone pretty much agreed that a .357 Magnum loaded with 125-grain jacketed hollowpoints was the ne plus ultra of handgun stopping power. A hit with a 22 beats a miss with a 45. I cannot decide between 9mm or .357 Sig. Since durable steel handguns that can use 9mm +P+ loads are cheaper and more readily available, Two other strong contenders in the .355-caliber 125-bullet weight division are the .38 Super and the. The 9mm vs 357 mag debate is kind of funny. Not sure why the .357 Sig is being evaluated as a hunting cartridge? Ich hab auch auf dem Stand meine Freude dran, wenn sie auch als Student im Unterhalt nicht ganz billig ist (ca. Not sure if you’re still monitoring this discussion any longer but regardless, I think this is a good comparison article except for one point. .357 SIG ist eine von SIGARMS in Zusammenarbeit mit Federal Cartridge 1994 entwickelte Patrone. Only time will tell if it would gain the kind of resurgence in popularity the 10mm is enjoying now — both of us can only hope. I didn’t say the 9mm is as good as the .357 SIG, in fact if you’d only take a second look at my article and really try to see where I was coming from, you would likely get the impression that I was rooting for the .357 SIG in this article. Well not so much at the LGS, but the internet and places like SGammo make it easily purchased via the mail guy. Looking at the 7.65x21mm’s and the 9x19mm’s ballistics performance, it’s obvious that the former is superior. Thanks for the comment Michael, can’t agree more on everything you said. Even the extremely hot 9mm +P+ with the same bullet weight runs about 150 feet per second slower than just the standard .357 SIG load. The .357 SIG pushes a 125-grain bullet out of a 4.5 inch barrel at velocities reaching up to 1,450 feet per second. They expanded to around 0.60 inches. But I digress.eval(ez_write_tag([[300,250],'gunnewsdaily_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_2',130,'0','0'])); So, for this handgun caliber showdown, it is with much sorrow and misery that I have to say that for all intents and purposes, the time-tested, relatively weaker but more readily available and more affordable 9mm wins over the .357 SIG. I hope you enjoy the video and thanks for watching! In fact, .357 SIG demonstrates virtually identical performance characteristics as the other cartridges when fired through hard barrier materials. Coy Getman I’ve been a Armed Security patrol officer for over a decade, carried everything from Sig p220s, 226s, 229s, Hk USPs, M9s, old steel 3rd gen Smith’s and every caliber from 9mm to .45ACP including the failed .45GAP. A cartridge that could be shot out of a gun the size of 9mm, smaller and lighter than the .45acp.357 Mag and 10mms of that period. You just earned your self a NEW fan. Ich schieße eine SIG 2340 in .357 SIG und bin voll zufrieden. It doesn’t outperform 9mm in credible ballistic tests, it costs more, the mags hold less ammo, and (I’ve seen this happen) if you’re not paying attention you might buy .357 Magnum ammo on accident for your .357 Sig. The first was the 10mm Glock 20 and it did the job. Colder weather or woods carry it’s always a .357 sig. Striker-Fired Compact Pistol . Its like saying my gun is bigger than yours. I probably wouldn’t because I like the .38 Super and the 9×23 Winchester better… then again maybe I would? ? There seems to be, at best, an indifference toward, and, at worst, a strong dislike for, the .357 SIG cartridge. Its tapered brass that can withstand a SAAMI pressure limit of 35,000 psi (241 MPa) is quite tiny and allows for typical single-stack magazines designed for its arguably biggest rival, the .45 acp, to hold up to 22% more ammo. Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next > Boberama member. SIG vermied es, seine neue P… To say the .357 was trying to fix a non-existant problem is innacurate. Critical Duty 9mm vs. 357 Sig Comparison. That was back in the old days way before 10mm, 40S&W and 357SIG were developed and I was involved in taking care of shootout victims usually in “drug deals gone bad” – AKA victims of LEO including State Patrol, DEA, etc. Handguns have always been for the immediate threat to end a confrontation with a bad guy. After the first round of tests everybody wanted me to go first because the force and cavitation shown by the dummy when shot by the 357 SIG was noticeably greater then all the other calibers. I was just wandering if the .357sig load would be of much use in the short barrel of the Shield pistol? All of the 357 SIG's are made to handle the pressures for the caliber. And shorter barrel = bigger muzzle blast, even worse than what Jason above has touched on in his comment. 357 SIG vs 45 ACP + P. Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Boberama, Jan 31, 2010. We’ll never see them, but that’s ok, my G26 will do just fine, I just pray I never have to use it. The.357 Sig uses a.355 inch diameter bullet like the 9mm, not a.357 diameter bullet like the.357 Magnum and.38 Special. Die .357 SIG verwendet eine modifizierte .40-S&W-Hülse, wobei der Hülsenhalsdurchmesser zum Hülsenmund hin verkleinert wurde, sodass .357-Geschosse verwendet werden können. Love the caliber. Hence, the 9mm was their “first hope” for a superior man-stopper bullet, and the 10mm became the “second hope”. I’m one of the odd ones out. I have. So what was still available? Able to hit 1400+ feet per second out of a proof barrel, it certainly accomplished its goal of reproducing the on-paper ballistics of the .357 Magnum. Stay safe and best wishes to you and my apologies for not responding sooner. It was a tack driver. I’ve had a few others that I didn’t keep, because I didn’t care for the gun itself. What’s the barrel length on your S&W Shield? Thanks for taking the time to read the article. That transition was suspended after recruits in the A-2014 class, the first to train with the new S&W M&P 9mm polymer handguns, experienced numerous malfunctions with those weapons. https://gunnewsdaily.com/fk-brno-field-pistol-review/, http://www.answers.com/Q/What_gun_is_carried_by_secret_service_agents, http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357sig.html, https://www.turners.com/kimber/kimber-pro-carry-hd-ii-38-supe-5612, Disclaimer Policy And FTC Affiliate Disclosure |, Disclaimer Policy And FTC Affiliate Disclosure. It was addressing issues during that time of trying to create the best manstopper afyer yhe FBI claimed the 9mm failed in 1986. The brass was made 1/8-inch longer so it wouldn’t fit inside the weaker .38 Special revolvers’ chambers to avoid catastrophic results, and in 1935 it was christened the .357 S&W Magnum. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. If it’s good enough to guard the President, it’s good enough for me. The .357 Magnum … Elmer Keith, an Idahoan gun nut among other things, got it right when he decided to hot-load the .38 Special for use in some of Smith & Wesson’s .38-caliber revolvers built originally for the .44 S&W Special. It’s just too easy. Today on Kentucky Ballistics we shoot some soft body armor with 9mm, 357 Sig, 10mm and 5.7x28mm! If you look at this link http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357sig.html you’ll see that there’s around ~200 fps difference in muzzle velocities when firing any of the specified .357 SIG loads from a 3-inch and a 5-inch. Heck yes. Final shot was into his spine , severing it by one of my detectives as he collapsed and rolled due to his momentum. Just look at how now there a making 45acp + p rounds and 40SW rounds going 50-75 FPS faster and that’s something that was never heard of ten years ago. Handgun Search; Tabletop Compare; Contribute; Contact; Smith & Wesson . The .357 Sig was desigend to address a very real problem, the problem of a non-ezistant handgun cartridge that is a very effective manstopper in all cases, conditions and situations. It hit the scene in 1994 as an answer in search of a question. In my opinion, in the case of 9mm vs. .357 Sig, 9mm is the clear winner. However, as I sit here In the twilight of the COVID-19 threat. That said I carry 9mm and .357 sig off duty. To make a fair comparison, we’ll look at the results for the Federal 124gr HST in 9mm vs. the Federal 125gr HST in .357 Sig, and the Hornady 135gr Critical Duty +P in 9mm vs. the 135gr Critical Duty in .357 Sig. I’m sure all of you (and maybe a few of you participated too) had noticed that 9mm rounds were being gobbled up like tiny white marbles in a frantic game of hungry hungry hippos. In some scenarios they're pretty close, in others the 357 can be quite a bit hotter - relatively speaking. There have been many times I asked myself this question: If I survived a holocaust of some sort — like say a zombie apocalypse or a nuclear fallout — and there was only one semi-auto handgun caliber left in the world, what would that be for me? Aber dafür hab ich mir ne … After research I determined that if I ever had to defend myself I would want the upper hand. This will be a very subjective comparison based on my own logic and experience, and my opinions do not reflect those of the other contributing authors of Gun News Daily. Is it more expensive? The high-pressure rating of the brass can also push the typical 115-grain .355 caliber projectile out of a 4.65-inch barrel with muzzle velocities of up to 1,180 feet per second. While the bullet diameter is the same as the wonder nine, most.357 Sig projectiles are shaped differently. Please do check out my other articles here at GND. It is ballistically superior to the 9mm. This is what I understood it’s purpose was to overcome and that’s what it excels at. Re: 9mm +P+ vs 357 Sig vs 357 Sig +p+ « Reply #10 on: December 07, 2009, 07:14:05 am » Grant: You brought up something I'd overlooked on converting a .40 S&W to a 357 Sig … Before the first round of testing everyone wanted to see the 45 go first, then the 40 then the 9 then me. I have both….carry both at times because for me I interpreted the creation of the .357Sig for a specialized reason. As far as the barrier/glass penetration bit and all other things you mentioned, I can’t agree more. @JD Donham LMAO! Ahhh so many guns, so little time. These issues have formed a vicious cycle: ammo availability/reloading issues cause frustration which causes bad rep, which in turn diminishes demand, which then pushes suppliers to sell their stock ammo at a loss, which then results to some manufacturers limiting/stopping ammo manufacture. The 9mm is a 35,000 psi, +P is 38,500 psi and +P+ is 40,000 psi. Scant amounts of .40S&W, .45 ACP, and a relatively available amount of the obscure and much maligned .357 SIG. © 2015-2021 TargetBarn, LLC. It accomplished this by taking a 9mm bullet (.355 diameter) and sticking it in a necked down .40 S&W case. Hi, I am just an average guy with a CHL. I never once said the 9mm is perfect. You know as well as I do that the handgun caliber wars will continue until the Star Trek phasers come out, then it’ll start all over as to which phaser works best. Budget always controls preferences in the field. I’m one of those guys that carriers a different gun and caliber every week just for fun, but if I’m going to a bad part of town or on a trip, it’s the 357 SIG for all the reasons ThePersonalProtectionSpecialist mentioned. Prior to adopting the .357 SIG round, the Secret Service issued the P228 in 9 mm Luger, though that pistol only lasted around 7-8 years before being superseded by the P229 DAK. Thumbnail: shootout with a Meth Head blasting us, he was hit 9 times within 12-15 feet, both lungs punched out, one hit through the neck severing his carotid artery and he ran like a zombie in WW 3 MOVIE. However, with the .357 Sig you also get fewer rounds in the magazine! Not long after, he designed the 9×19 Parabellum cartridge that would use a .355-inch bullet — it would later supersede the then dominant but relatively smaller .309-inch bullet in the 7.65x21mm Parabellum. As for ammo availability, I’ve got about 1800 to 2000 rounds of it and never had an issue finding it here in Texas. Not that I ever want to be in a gunfight. I’ve been hunting for a place such as this for quite a long moment. Compare Views. Whereas my Glock 19 was the equalizer, the Glock 32 that I have made my EDC gives me more comfort. So the argument my .45 is so much bigger and better than your 9mm is not only silly, but the actual difference in diameter is 9.6 caliber, less than 1/2 the diameter of a .22 bullet. For me the .357Sig advantage was always vehicle penetration. We tested both .357 Sig and 9mm loads. But its biggest Achilles’ heel being it can be expensive/difficult to come by/hard to handload in my opinion makes it inferior than the readily available but ballistically weaker 9mm. It’s people like you that make me think the .357 SIG will never die. Today on Kentucky Ballistics we have 9mm, 357 Sig, 10mm and 5.7x28mm vs pine boards! http://www.answers.com/Q/What_gun_is_carried_by_secret_service_agents. Mitglied werden Passwort vergessen? Why is that even a question? From the .38 special, modifications began to be made by Phil Sharpe, Elmer Keith, and eventually the guys at Smith & Wesson. This round starts with a velocity of 1249 which drops to 678 at the 500 yard distance. Thanks for your input. Let’s take a look at terminal ballistics. If I want a “+P” 357 Sig I can purchase Underwood’s loading of Gold Dot which hits 1510 FPS. Anyhow, I love the 357 sig and hope to see it climb in popularity. I’ve had zero issues locating HSTs, Gold Dots, various brands of FMJ, reloads, etc. To use the logic that 9mm is as good as the .357 Sig is the same as saying the .38 Special is as good as the .357 Magnum. Cheers! Ill keep both 9mm and 357sig cuz I like them both. I’d like to point out that the 357sig’s case shape also adds to reliability since it is a bottle necked case. With the 9mm HST, all five rounds met or exceeded the FBI’s penetration guidelines of 12-18 inches. It is very coincidental that I own both guns you have pictured (sig p239 in both calibers) and enjoy firing the sig 357 much more (and find myself carrying that more) but your conclusion hits the nail on the head when it comes to availability and affordability. Es handelt sich also um eine Flaschenhalspatrone, die ähnliche Eigenschaften wie eine Gewehrpatrone aufweist. Self-Defense & Competition Shooting Tips. I always looked at it as a slightly watered down .357 mag. However, there is one HUGE advantage to .357 Sig over 9mm. Level IIIA soft body armor vs 9mm +P, .357 Sig, & .45ACP +P, with Casual707. As a result, shooters have stripped bare gun stores and online retailers of 9mm ammo. We chronied our guns (mine was SIG P229, 3.9″ Bbl 125gr at 1365 FPS) then took turns at shooting a ballistic dummy wearing body armor. I don’t EDC everyday but when I do it’s a 9mm. The company I purchased from also had a .357sig barrel. I had a Sig Nightmare 1911 in Sig 357 and still kinda kick myself for trading it off. 20€ pro pak.). Our handguns are our secondary weapons not our primary. Nice article. We discussed the .357 Sig but yet again, too costly on the Ammo. Imagine being able to buy and use three different pressure loads (standard, +P and +P+) for your 9mm handgun vs. just one for your .357 SIG — would you still choose the SIG? Therefore, you could make a use case for it as a crisis-stockpiling resistant caliber. But there are small bores and then there is the .38 Super and the .357 Magnum. this leaves guns like the 10mm glock 20’s, they are bigger, breach face is still 40/357/10mm brass sized, too large for extraction 100% of the time, mag lips are an issue. Shoot Straight! Compare this to the .357 Critical Duty, which penetrated to about 18.9 inches, had identical expansion, and approximately 100 feet more of muzzle velocity. The difference is gun construction, all 9mm's will not handle +P+. Specifically, they wanted to recreate 125gr .357 Magnum performance out of a four-inch revolver, but in an auto-loading pistol. $30-40 for 50 rounds of FMJ and astronomical prices for HPJ. I found that the muzzle blast & report were beating me up on indoor ranges. So rather than offering better training for their officers and agents (which they do need) with the 40SW and 357 sig both which they all said was a much better and more powerful round at taking down people especially the 357 sig when loaded to where it originally was supposed to be (which originally was 1,450 + feet per second) for a 125 GR bullet and it still out performs any 9mm +p or +P+ round) and even after being watered down by ammo companies to 1350-1375 the 357 sig still out performed any 9mm +p and +P+ round that they the FBI and LEO had and they still opted to go with the less powerful 9mm which is under gunning there officers to a less lethal round. Don’t get me wrong, I have a Glock 33 in 357 Sig and I love it! Join 70,000 Readers For Our Weekly Discounts. Why, if that were the case, then I say we get rid of all types of ammo save the almighty .50 BMG, gather them and burn them all. Together, they … Despite less use than other cartridges, the .357 SIG is a fast, accurate, and powerful cartridge that can be used for target shooting, personal defense, and even hunting..357 SIG Quick Facts: Both were designed for semi-automatic handguns, both use a projectile that has a diameter of 355/1000 of an inch, and with modern bullet designs, i.e. I believe the 9mm is the best carry caliber for most folk because, just as the FBI report stated, most are too recoil sensitive for anything more powerful (from 10mm to 40 Cal to 9mm). I’m pretty sure the 124 grain Federal HST’s stuffed in it will give a bad guy a real bad case of heartburn and indigestion. I have no interest whatsoever in being in a gunfight. There are folks who have no issues forking out a couple more bucks and us cheapskates can only envy them. “To use the logic that 9mm is as good as the .357 Sig is the same as saying the .38 Special is as good as the .357 Magnum.” We're talking handgun rounds so both are pretty tepid in the overall scheme of firearms. Discussion Starter • #1 • Dec 11, 2005. Is IIIA capable of stopping these common pistol rounds? The bean counters had a hissy over the cost of 10mm and convinced command to go to .45 Glock 21SF with Golden Sabres and a +P. Both use a straight brass design (the latter being a little tapered). Well…uh…they’re both pushing .355 diameter bullets north of 1100-1200 FPS, and both with the correct load will meet or exceed the FBI’s ballistic performance standards. What that all those numbers mean in layman’s terms is that all you get with .357 Sig is a round that costs more money, for no improvement in terminal ballistics. A lot has to do with where I’m going and doing. 38 super is also a great round, but I’ve only shot it and never owned one. What came from these modifications is the round that is still in use today, the .357 Mag.The .357 Mag was a handgun cartridge that provided unrivaled velocity and terminal ballistic performance at the time. The ability to carry more rounds per magazine (9mm vs. .357 SIG) in a lighter gun were among the stated reasons for the change. In this article I will be comparing two kinds of similar but very different handgun calibers: the 9×19 Parabellum and the .357 SIG. Thank you for the entertaining article. I am wondering: I am buying the pistol because I want an auto pistol to carry around our farm and out in the woods for self defense (against dogs, coyotes, but mostly criminal types). It’ll only be a matter of whether the owner would be okay with reaming the barrel’s chamber to accept 9×23 Winchester or just sticking with .38 Super. My background is a swat police officer in a major US city for clarification. Thank you sir, for (what I think is) an honest and non biasedlook at gun calibers and their performance Vs availability. I’d love to have a Coonan in .357 magnum too. I think the fine folks at SIG Sauer nailed it when they designed this cartridge. P365 XL . I own a S&W shield in .40. Our practice of head shots became a training focus afterwards whereas before we were trained center mass. 5" barrel. Life isn’t ever going to be that easy though, and superior ballistics doesn’t necessarily mean a particular cartridge/caliber is better than another. To reiterate what I wrote in the Conclusion part of the article, I wish the .357 SIG gained the popularity that I think it deserves, I really do. . ? I’m another latecomer to the article/party. A cartridge that had less recoil than .357 Magnum Compare the dimensions and specs of Smith & Wesson M&P 9 M2.0 3.6" Compact and Sig Sauer P365 XL. In that same year the Smith & Wesson Registered Magnum (M27) was born. There is no such thing as stopping power in a handgun. That’s what matters most for me. Plus the fireballs it makes at twilight hours is a bonus :p. Thanks for reading through the article. Your email address will not be published. But, just as rifle cartridges that come out and are superior, sometimes far superior to 5.56mm and .308, they can rarely break into mainstream because the world is flooded with 5.56, .308 and 9mm. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. I would recommend getting a Glock 23 and getting a .357 SIG conversion or better yet, get a Glock 32 and don’t bother converting it to .40 S&W. Thanks, glad you liked the article. The 9mm (124 +P & standard 147 grain,) 357 Sig and 40S&W are too close to offer any real advantage in self defense. The .357 Mag’s origins begin in the early 1930’s where the police force was in desperate need of a better terminal performing handgun load. Where the two differ greatly are their bullet velocities, their case dimensions and some would argue, what they can be used for. There is still plenty of .357 Sig out there. The slight drawback of the 9mm +P+ having a bit of a lower velocity is mitigated by the fact that durable all-steel guns (e.g. Hi, I am just an average guy with a CHL. jacketed hollow points (JHPs) and jacketed soft points (JSPs) both can be great man-stoppers. Between the .357 magnum and 9mm, unfortunately its more like comparing apples and oranges. And the main issue with buying stuff online is, well, cost. Maybe if I compare the most common handgun calibers two at a time and record all my thoughts, I’d be able to figure out what the answer to the above question is. Sign up here to find out first about new shooting tips and articles. Handgun Caliber Showdown Round 1: 9mm vs .357 SIG. I’m not sure where you got your info, but when you said “The 10mm was their second hope followed by the .40.” I took it you implied that the .357 SIG came before the 10mm? Point being…no matter what you carry, today’s druggies are jacked up and don’t drop like in the movies. And before I forget, I downloaded that link you sent and I’ll read it later today. ThePersonalProtectionSpecialist is correct in all he said. But, nonetheless it was a brilliant piece of work. People are worried and they want to stock up. Since 2001, we have provided the latest in gun rights news, tech reviews and product information. To quote a colleague of mine, “it’s like everyone learned the wrong lessons from the Miami gunfight and now we have more calibers.”. Is ammo readily available?. SIG partnered up with another big name in the firearms world to make this happen: Federal Cartridge, now called Federal Premium Ammunition. 9mm vs 40 Ballistics. You need a oal of 1.2 in for those to be at there peak power. Which, in turn, led to an increase in sales of guns and barrels chambered for that round. 6 rounds of .357 mag or 16 of .357 sig? Although we all have our “comfort” caliber, I could not agree more with your assessment. If I were in need of shooting thru my door while inside my vehicle I trust it would be more effective than a 9mm. I think carrying typical 125-grain .357 SIG loads is pushing it — I can be wrong as I’ve never had to shoot a bear before, but in such scenarios it’s better to err on the safe side. I came across your article a little late, since we’re now at the end of April. Joined: Dec 29, 2006 Messages: 10,684 Location: Alabama. I have one problem though and I see it in almost every pro/con evaluation of the .357 sig. You will know this name from the massive slice of the ammo section they own at your local sporting goods store. I think handguns being just handguns, they’ll only be great for when you need to defend yourself against a baddie in a pinch but will never be remotely as effective as rifles or shotguns. But if your Shield is a 4-inch then it might be worth trying. IdaD, Jun 13, 2019 #5. Striker-Fired Subcompact Pistol *Buying ammo from LuckyGunner.com helps support HandgunHero. All these calibers rival and some even exceed the .357 SIG as far as ballistics, but these having thinner casing means there’s room for more rounds in the mag. In comparison to 9mm, .357 Sig is a baby. I wish there could be more odd ones like yourself — then maybe the .357 SIG would get the popularity it deserves. 3. The 125gr HST in .357 Sig also met the FBI’s penetration guidelines. Gun News Daily is the longest running gun news website in the US. Of course, on the plus side the 9mm is a very utilitarian cartridge available world-wide and with proper defensive ammo it is a good stopper. I can only hope its popularity catches on in the not so distant future — it deserves more. We may earn a commission when you purchase through one of our links. So, yeah, the 9mm +P velocity is comparable to 357 Sig or Mag but only when comparing it to the most anemic 357 loading you can find. Most agencies in our areas had the Glock 22 / .40 so we were told to accept the .45+p Trajectories change a lot on glass, and with the supports inside a car door, 9mm and .40 can be stopped dead in its tracks.
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